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Kobe Bryant
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Reg.: 7 april 2003

Het is weer zover, de lange zomer (hoewel, met de Olympische spelen) is eindelijk voorbij. Tijd om weer te basketballen! :ja
Vanaf november barst het spektakel weer in alle hevigheid los in de NBA. Er is nogal al wat geschoven met spelers en dus zijn er veel gewijzigde teams. Het meest opvallend is toch wel alle perikelen rondom de Los Angeles Lakers waar The Shaq naar Miami is vertrokken en coach Phil Jackson weggestuurd is na vorig seizoen. Kobe Bryant heeft hier een grote rol bij gespeeld, de keuze was �f O'Neal �f Bryant. Zoals bekend heeft men voor het laatste gekozen wat met veel moddergooien gepaard is gegaan.

Post hier jullie voorspellingen, wie wordt wereldkampioen komend seizoen? Ik zet mijn geld (als ik dat zou hebben :B ) op de San Antonio Spurs in ieder geval.

[Dit bericht is veranderd door Kobe Bryant (op 1 november 2009 10:37:51).]
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Sander
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Jaja het gaat bijna weer beginnen; Phil jackson heeft een nieuw boek geschreven over het afgelopen seizoen. Het gaat voornamelijk over zijn relatie met Kobe Bryant en de onderlinge relatie tussen Shaq en Kobe. Hier wat passages; dikgedrukt enkele interessante dingen;

In the following excerpt from Phil Jackson's upcoming book, The Last Season (published this fall by Penguin Press), the former Lakers coach describes the difficulties in trying to manage an increasingly petulant Kobe Bryant while trying to keep the Lakers focused on the season at hand, and not themselves.

AUGUST 26

Los Angeles

In the first six weeks after the Colorado story broke, I did not speak to Kobe [Bryant]. I called for a third and final time from Montana, but again the machine answered. He never returned my calls. Imagining the anxieties in his new life, I was not offended. Kobe will confide only with the people he trusts, and I certainly have never been a card-carrying member of that group. Mitch [Kupchak] and I wondered whether Kobe, as some people have suggested, might elect to sit out the entire season. We also talked about perhaps offering him a leave of absence. No professional athlete, I believe, has ever tried to perform at the top level of his sport for any extended length of time while fighting to keep his freedom. We didn't wonder for too long: we recently received word from Kobe's people that he intended to treat the upcoming season like any other. He must be in denial. This season, if nothing else, cannot possibly be like any other.

Finally, earlier this week, Kobe came into my office at our training facility in El Segundo. He looked weak and gaunt, down to maybe a little more than two hundred pounds, ten or fifteen less than his standard playing weight. Most NBA players participate in pick-up games during the off-season and work out daily to maintain the conditioning they'll need to compete in top form. Many use the time to develop another move or facet of their game, something, anything, to provide them with an edge over their opponents. Kobe has been playing basketball since he was three years old. He loves the game more than anything else. To realize that he hadn't been doing much physically was quite a shock.

"We really want you to survive this thing," I told him.

He smiled.

"Are you getting any help?" I asked. "Do you have anybody to talk to?"

"No."

"Kobe, you've got to have someone to talk to."

"We have a minister."

"That's a start."

We didn't rehash our old conflicts. We were here to talk about this year, this team, and the necessary adjustments to make this coming season successful. We didn't go over his case. We discussed how he was recuperating from the injuries to his knee and shoulder. The conversation was fairly harmless. Until out of nowhere it became anything but harmless.

"I'm not going to take any s--- from Shaq[uille O'Neal] this year," Kobe blurted out. "If he starts saying things in the press, I'll fire back. I'm not afraid to go up against him. I've had it."

I tried to calm him down as quickly as possible. "Kobe, we'll watch what's being said," I assured him. "We'll make allowances this year so you'll be able to do what you have to do and then come back to the team. Don't worry. We're hoping for the best."

I looked him right in the eye and gave him a hug. No matter what had gone on between us in the past, he is a member of the Laker family, and families stick together in difficult times. I was sure that at least for the moment, the anger he flashed toward Shaquille was neutralized. After we wrapped up, Kobe headed straight to see Mitch, who later informed me that nothing had been neutralized.

"Shaq didn't call me this summer," Kobe told Mitch.

"Kobe, I gave you a message from him," Mitch responded. "He invited you to Orlando to get away from everything."

"Shaq didn't have to leave a message through you," he said. "He knew how to reach me."


The exchange with Mitch revealed the underlying contradiction in Kobe's attitude toward Shaquille, a symbol, in fact, of a much broader dichotomy in his psyche. On the one hand, he insists that he doesn't "give a shit what the big guy does," but on the other, he shows he cares a great deal about what the big guy does. The meeting with Kobe reinforced an idea I had been contemplating since July, since Colorado, since everything changed. I decided to enlist a therapist to help me cope with what will surely be the most turbulent season of my coaching career. After receiving a few recommendations, I selected a therapist who has dealt with narcissistic behavior in the Los Angeles public school system. He'll be right at home here.

OCTOBER 21

Los Angeles

I wonder what Kobe is thinking. Yesterday he reiterated his intention to opt out of his contract and become an unrestricted free agent at the end of the season. I would never oppose a player's desire to explore his true market value -- if only the players in my era had been granted a similar freedom -- but I do question his sense of timing.

Since the charges were made, Kobe has been treated remarkably well by the Lakers organization and the fans. He gave his press conference at Staples with our blessing, and we have agreed -- once we attained permission from the league to make sure the funds wouldn't be applied to the salary cap -- to cover a percentage of his private plane expenses to and from Colorado for court hearings. This will cost thousands of dollars. Kobe was unhappy with the type of plane that was selected; he wanted one with higher status. :D

After eight seasons together it was clear that Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant were headed in different directions.

OCTOBER 28

Los Angeles

After going 3-5 during the exhibition season we started serious preparations a few days ago for, at long last, tonight's opener at Staples against the Dallas Mavericks. While we put together probably only one decent half in eight games, this is a veteran group that will know how to perform when everything matters. This being the Lakers, the longest-running soap opera in professional sports, there has been plenty of intrigue off the court over the last seventy-two hours. The stars of the newest episode? Why, Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'Neal, of course. Their most recent feud had taken place in early 2001. After a two-year hiatus, the duo have reunited -- wrong word, I suppose -- for a sequel. I heard the news while checking out video of the Mavericks, trying to devise a game plan to disrupt their highly explosive attack. There was a knock at the door. Kobe walked in, anxious to talk about another highly explosive attack.

"He popped off," Kobe said. I did not have to ask who "he" was.

"You're kidding me," I said. "What did he say?"

"Did you read the paper? It's in the paper," he said.

It was in the paper, all right, Shaq suggesting that for the Lakers to be successful this season, Kobe, who played in only two exhibition contests, needed to rely more on his teammates until he regained his full strength.

"Is this what you're talking about?" I asked Kobe.

"Yeah," he said.

"Kobe, what's wrong with this?" I said. "Shaq is right. This is exactly what we want you to do." ....

But the anger did not disappear. After practice, Kobe fired back at Shaquille, through the press, exactly as he promised he would in August. "I definitely don't need advice on how to play my game," he said. "I know how to play my guard spot. He can worry about the low post." The war was on.

"He doesn't need advice on how to play his position," Shaquille said, "but he needs advice on how to play team ball. If it's going to be my team, I'll voice my opinion. If he don't like it, he can opt out."

On and on it went, the two protagonists in top form. Why don't the two get along? I have my theories, one of which is that Shaquille is making the type of money -- about $25 million a year -- that Kobe will never earn due to the changes in the league's collective bargaining agreement. No matter how many MVP trophies Kobe might collect in the decade ahead, there is nothing he can do about this discrepancy. In fact, the word I got was that Kobe was the only player in the entire league who voted against the agreement because of the cap it put on salaries.


The newspapers, needless to say, have treated the Kobe-Shaq feud as if it were the second coming of Cain versus Abel. IT'S THE RETURN OF STAR WARS was the headline in the [Los Angeles] Times. The story was destined to last for days and days, every basketball reporter in the city, maybe the nation, on a scavenger hunt for the next insult or innuendo to filter through the grapevine. There was only so much the Lakers could do to try to tame the beast, and whatever we were going to do, we had to act fast. I placed a call to the therapist. "Get them apart," he recommended. "Tell them that what they're saying about each other is not doing anybody any good." He mentioned a psychological term for this damage-control strategy: suppression. I took Shaq aside, and Mitch found Kobe.

"We can't have this," I told Shaq. "This isn't right. We're on a mission, and we want nothing more in the press." Shaq was not in the mood to suppress anything. "Phil, I have a stepbrother," he explained, "and when I was young, I was the outcast. Everything I did was wrong and everything he did was okay even though he did stuff that I could never get away with. If I tried to do it, they would have beaten the heck out of me. It's the same situation with Kobe. He ends up getting an operation from some doctor, who knows where, and I end up getting an operation and I'm the one criticized for it. I end up looking like crap in this thing, and he can do whatever he wants. I'd like to pound the chump." I empathized with Shaq but I told him the team needed to put the feud behind it as soon as possible. He agreed to keep quiet. This was another example of the basic difference between him and Kobe. Ask Shaq to do something and he'll say: "No, I don't want to do that." But after a little pouting, he will do it. Ask Kobe, and he'll say, "okay," and then he will do whatever he wants. Against our instructions, Kobe did an interview with ESPN, vowing that if he were to leave the Lakers at the end of the season, it would be due to Shaq's "childlike selfishness and jealousy." So much for suppression.

JANUARY 31

On the subject of losing Kobe, I wonder once again whether our relationship has deteriorated beyond repair. Earlier this week at El Segundo there was an incident at practice. On the way to the court, I asked Kobe, still nursing a sore shoulder, if he was up to doing a little running. Sure, he responded, as soon as he finished his treatment. Almost an hour went by, and there was no Kobe sighting. Finally, with an ice pack on his shoulder, he took a seat on the sideline. It began to dawn on me that contrary to what he had told me, Kobe had no intention of running. After practice I followed Kobe to the training room, asking him why he lied to me. He was being sarcastic, he said. Wrong answer. I wasn't in the mood. Believe me, I can't begin to imagine how difficult this whole ordeal has been for Kobe, but that doesn't mean I will allow myself to be the recipient of his displaced anger, especially when I've been firmly on his side since the Colorado story broke.

Now I was the one who was angry. I went upstairs to see Mitch in his office. Wasting no time, I went off on a tirade about the need to deal Kobe before the trading deadline in mid-February. "I won't coach this team next year if he is still here," I said emphatically. "He won't listen to anyone. I've had it with this kid."
FEBRUARY 10

Miami

This afternoon I did something I almost never do. When Shaquille and Rick [Fox] stepped off the bus at our hotel in Coconut Grove, an upscale Miami suburb, I asked them to enter my suite for a brief chat. From the puzzled expressions on their faces, I could tell they were extremely curious, perhaps alarmed. I believe the time on the road between practice and the tip-off is almost sacred; the players should be allowed to prepare in their own ways for the challenge awaiting them. But this time I was facing my own challenge, and it had nothing to do with the Miami Heat. Recognizing that my relationship with Kobe was becoming more acrimonious by the day, I decided that a conversation with Shaq and Fox could not wait any longer. At practice the day before Kobe, who told [trainer Gary] Vitti that his finger hadn't healed sufficiently for him to play in the Miami game, was taking a few shots left-handed when I asked him not to be a distraction. I needed to work with the players who would be suiting up. "Distraction," he said, mockingly, unable to resist taking one more shot. A few hours later, during dinner in Key Biscayne with the staff, Vitti told us that Kobe has been threatening again to opt out of his contract, vowing "to take Slava [Medvedenko] with me." Slava? Was this an indication of Kobe's being totally out of touch with reality? If Kobe was interested in taking along a player who would defer to him, Slava Medvedenko was the worst choice imaginable. He hasn't passed up a shot since November.

Shaq and Rick took a seat in my room. Inviting Rick, I felt, would keep the discussion at a high level. I got right to the point. "What would you guys think if I were to offer Kobe a leave of absence?" They wasted no time, either. Kobe, they promised, would contribute to the team in a positive manner once he recovered from his finger injury. I was gratified to note the genuine sense of compassion, especially coming from Kobe's supposed enemy, Shaquille. The press, I have long believed, with its sensationalistic, insult-to-insult coverage, has captured only one component in a rather complicated relationship between two proud, if emotionally fragile, superstars. Shaq and Kobe will never be buddies, but they remain linked together by a common goal, perhaps destiny, each aware that they can't win championships here without the other. With Rick and Shaquille opposed, along with Mitch, I filed the leave of absence idea away for good. "What happens if he won't accept it?" Mitch asked. In that case, I replied, I would tell Kobe that we would suspend him with pay regardless, but for PR purposes call it a "leave of absence." The choice would belong to him. I knew precisely what I would say: "Kobe, you're not a positive element with the team anymore. You can't have these kind of anger situations in front of your teammates because it's destructive to the balance that has to be maintained."

FEBRUARY 16

A conversation with Kobe often reveals one of his many narcissistic tendencies. After I told him I believed he and Shaquille have proven they can play effectively together, he brought up Sunday's All-Star game, captured by the Western Conference squad 136--132. Shaq led the way with twenty-four points and eleven rebounds. "I got Shaq the most valuable player award last night," Kobe said. "I know how to make Shaq the best player on the floor." No doubt he was right. Nobody, when he is committed, can deliver the ball to Shaq more consistently, in a better spot, than Kobe. Yet if I were to acknowledge this point, I would betray Shaquille and arm Kobe with ammunition he might later exploit for their one-on-one battle that although camouflaged, always simmers under the surface.
Kobe then expressed his disapproval of Shaquille's failure to show up for practice today. "That just shows you what kind of a leader he is," he said. "The conversation is about you and me, not Shaq," I said. He was angry about the allowances the Lakers afford Shaq, failing to note the hypocrisy in his accusation. Nobody this year, or in any year I've coached, has received more "allowances" than Kobe Bryant. At times the pettiness between the two of them can be unbelievably juvenile. Shaquille won't allow himself to be taped before a game by Gary Vitti because he's too aligned with Kobe. Kobe won't let Chip Schaefer, Shaq's guy, tape him. Reporters aren't immune from these territorial disputes. If a writer lingers too often around one superstar's locker, he is likely to be shut out by the other.

APRIL 13

Los Angeles

With the playoffs less than a week away, we need to be coming together. Instead, we're coming apart. At the center of the latest turmoil is -- who else? --Kobe. This time, in a strange twist, he's being crucified for taking too few shots: only one, unbelievably enough, in the first half of Sunday's game in Sacramento, which we lost by seventeen points, ruining, in all likelihood, any chance to win our division. He finished with eight points, his lowest total ever in a game in which he played at least forty minutes. The theory being tossed around is that Kobe, stung by criticism for his shot selection in recent games, decided to show the Lakers how stagnant the offense can become when he doesn't assert himself. "I don't know how we can forgive him," one anonymous teammate was quoted as saying in today's Times.

Today at practice, Kobe went from player to player, shoving the article with the anonymous quote in their faces. I have rarely seen him that incensed. "Did you say this?" he demanded of each player. Later, during a team gathering, he pursued the interrogation. "Right here and right now," he said, raising his voice, "I want to know who said this shit." :B

Nobody said a word, until Karl finally broke the silence. "Obviously, Kobe, no one said it or no one wants to admit they said it," Karl said. "You've just got to let it go now." Karl and Kobe, who have become buddies, launched into a shouting match that I had to stop.


"We have to get over these types of things," I told the guys. "You can't be playing as a team if you're going to be harboring sentiments that aren't good toward each other." Desperate measures, I'm beginning to think, might be in order. Maybe we'll return to meditation, something, anything, to improve our karma.

"Are you feeling like you're going to come back next year?" Jeanie [Buss] asked me.

"Well, not if Kobe Bryant is on this team next year," I told her. "He's too complex a person. I don't need this."


JUNE 18

This was one day I will certainly never forget. In the morning I met with Kobe. In the afternoon I saw [Lakers owner] Dr. [Jerry] Buss. By the evening I no longer had a job. I was not surprised in the least, yet the end of any journey is always jarring. Once again I will need time to reflect. Kobe arrived in El Segundo with his agent, Rob Pelinka. Before the formal exit interview with Mitch, who was still meeting with [Derek Fish[er], I invited them into my office. I couldn't help but think of my meeting with Kobe back in February on the day after the All-Star game, when I was trying to salvage a relationship and a season. There was great tension, yet in a sense Jeanie right. Kobe and I did work well together -- for four months, that is. This time the same tension between us wasn't there. We both knew I would never coach him again.

While waiting for Mitch, we discussed Kobe's upcoming court appearance in Eagle County.

"Is the trial going to interfere with your free agency?" I asked.

"I don't know," he said. "The date hasn't been set yet."

"If it's set in July, will you be able to work around this?"

"Yeah, I'd have meetings on the weekends."

"How long will the trial last?"

"Anywhere from one to three weeks."

"Is there still a chance that there won't be a trial?"

"Yeah, there's a chance but either way, it doesn't matter. The outcome will be the same."


Just then Mitch came in. The chat was over. It was time for the official meeting. Mitch, Kobe, and I moved to the conference room.

I started by casually asking Kobe who called him on his cell moments before we left the locker room for Game 5. It was Brian Shaw, he said, a former teammate and part of our organization. "He told me to get after Gary [Payton], to make sure he was fired up." The advice, it turned out, was sound, but answering the call wasn't appropriate.

I then told Kobe how pleased I was with his ability to put aside our conflicts after the meeting in February, and make a strong commitment to the rest of the season. Mitch didn't waste the opportunity to praise Kobe's remarkable performances. The next subject was his decision to become a free agent, which killed a minute or two. I then got down to the questions I really wanted to ask.

"Will my presence or absence have anything to do with your desire to play for the Lakers?" I asked.

He looked puzzled. I rephrased the question. "Would my being with the Lakers or retiring have any influence on your desire to remain with the Lakers?"

He said I should make up my mind about my future independently of his decision.

"I'm going to retire," I said.

He raised his eyebrows. For the first time in the entire conversation, I thought I detected a little emotion.

"Really?" he asked.

I nodded. The next subject was Shaquille. "Will Shaq's presence on this team color your decision to come back or not?" I asked him.

"Yes, it does," he said.

"There's no doubt about that," he said. "I've done that for eight years with him, but I'm tired of being a sidekick." His sentiment came as no surprise, obviously. In the last few years the entire city of Los Angeles has heard many times from many "sources" that Kobe was no longer willing to play a subservient role to Shaquille. But to hear it in the words of the only source that matters, to hear Kobe say "sidekick," really struck me. I told Kobe I hoped he would find happiness in basketball and in his life, and that his family would remain intact after everything that had transpired in the last year. The meeting was over.


I understand why the Lakers treat Kobe as their most valuable asset. The kid will be twenty-six in August. His ability to take over a game, to make an impossible play, is unmatched.
Yet it needs to be remembered that Kobe is still an employee, and that he needs direction and guidance in a way that helps him mature into the kind of adult we hope he can be. Kobe is missing out by not finding a way to become part of a system that involves giving to something larger than himself. He could have been the heir apparent to [Michael Jordan] and maybe won as many championships. He may still win a championship or two, but the boyish hero image has been replaced by that of a callous gun for hire.
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Sander
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De NBA teams ingedeeld in de dit jaar ingevoerde divisies. Er zijn dit jaar 6 divisies ipv 4.

NBA TEAMS

ATLANTIC
Boston Celtics (Payton, Pierce)
New Yersey Nets (Kidd)
New York knicks (Marburry)
Philadelphia 76ers (Iverson)
Toronto Raptors (Carter)

CENTRAL
Chicago Bulls (Chandler)
Cleveland Cavaliers (Lebron James)
Detroit Pistons (Wallace, Wallace, Hamilton)
Indiana Pacers (O'Neill, Artest, Miller)
Milwaukee Bucks (Gadzuric)

SOUTHEAST
Atlanta Hawks (Walker)
Charlotte Bobcats (Okafor)
Miami Heat (Shaq, Wade)
Orlando Magic (Francis, Mobley, Hill)
Washington Wizards (Arenas, Brown)

NORTHWEST
Denver Nuggets (Martin, Anthony, Elson)
Minnesota Timberwolves (Garnett, Cassel, Sprewell)
Portland Trailblazers (Miles, Ratliff)
Seattle SuperSonics (Allen)
Utah Jazz (Arroyo, Kirilenko)

SOUTHWEST
Dallas Mavericks (Dirk Nowitzky)
Houston Rockets (Yao Ming, Tracey McGrady)
Memphis Grizzlies (Pau Gasol)
New Orleans Hornets (Baron Davis)
San Antonio Spurs (Duncan, Parker)

PACIFIC
Golden State Warriors (Derek Fisher)
Los Angeles Clippers (Elton Brand)
Los Angeles Lakers ----> Mijn favo team (Kobe Bryant, Odom)
Phoenix Suns (Nash, Stoudamire, Marrion)
Sacramento Kings (Bibby, Stojakovic,Webber)

[Dit bericht is veranderd door Sander (op 18 oktober 2004 14:23:46).]
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Chief Hooligan
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Reg.: 16 april 2004

Tsja San antonio en LA zullen wel weer tot het einde meedoen.
Maar ik zou liever de Dallas Mavericks zien, of nog beter
(maar dat is echt een sprookje) de Boston Celtics of de
New York Knicks (ploegen waar ik binding mee heb.)

[Dit bericht is veranderd door Chief Hooligan (op 19 oktober 2004 22:19:50).]
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DSL
Mister PSV
Winnaar WK Pool 2006

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Reg.: 31 juli 2000

Hopelijk krabbelen de Bulls weer wat overeind, maar dat zal wel niet.. De Lakers zullen denk ik een terugslag krijgen met het vertrek van enkele grote mannen, dat kan Bryant niet allemaal opvangen. Ik neem een wilde gok: de Raptors :D
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Sander
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Helaas niet egt veel andere volgers geloof ik hier! ;)

In het Oosten zijn er twee uitgesproken favorieten; De huidige kampioen de Pistons, die zich in principe alleen maar heeft versterkt en de Indiana Pacers.
Daarnaast is de Miami Heat de grote outsider in het Oosten. Met de komst van Shaq en het behoud van superrookie Wade moeten de Heat wel tot wat in staat zijn. Helaas voor hun is de supportingcast van niet al te hoog niveau, doordat ze veel hebben moeten opgeven om Shaq te krijgen. Andere ploeg die dit jaar kan verassen is New York. Maar ik verwacht niet dat ze finale plaats halen in de conferende. Daarnaast zijn de magic over het geheel beter geworden. Als Grant Hill fit blijft dit jaar zouden ook zij voor een verassing kunnen zorgen. Ze hebben immers een sterke backcourt met Francis en Mobley en de 2de keuze uit de draft met Howard.

In het Westen heb je 3 uitgesproken favorieten; De Spurs de Timberwolves en de Rockets. Spurs hebben zich versterkt in de breedte en Timberwolves waren vorig jaar eigenlijk het best spelende team. Helaas voor hun kreeg 1 van hun drie sterren Cassel in de play-offs tegen de Lakers last van een blessure en waren Shaq en Kobe toen bezig aan een positieve serie. De Rockets hebben superster T-Mac gehaald in ruil voor Francis en Mobley, waardoor de Rockets nu een soort van de lakers zijn geworden. Een superster guard in T-Mac en een superster center in Yao Ming.

Outsiders in het Westen, wat nog altijd de sterkste kant is(Westen/Oosten), zijn de Denver Nuggets(die Martin hebben gehaald voor 3 future draftpicks en superrookie Anthony al hadden) en mijn favo ploeg de Lakers.

Mijn voorspellingen;

Algeheel kampioen; Detroit Pistons

Kampioen Oosten: Detroit Pistons

Kampioen Westen; San Antonio Spurs

Topscorer NBA; Kobe Bryant

MVP; Kobe Bryant (wordt lastig aangezien zn ploeg niet superhoog zal eindigen, maar ik verwacht dat Kobe dit jaar koning wordt van de tripple doubles)

Anders wordt het Garnett, Shaq, Duncan, T-Mac of Yao Ming.

[Dit bericht is veranderd door Sander (op 19 oktober 2004 22:54:29).]
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Sander
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Reg.: 8 maart 2001

En de lakers doen het boven verwachting goed in de pre-season games tot nu toe. Kobe is tot nu toe echt een leider in het veld die zijn medespelers beter probeert te maken. Op de beelden die ik van de game heb gezien zag je kobe veel passen en coachen. Butler en Mihm deden het gister erg goed.

Hier een samenvatting van de game:

FRESNO, Ca., Oct. 19 (Ticker) -- A pair of new acquisitions helped the Los Angeles Lakers post an exhibition victory over the road-weary Sacramento Kings.
Caron Butler scored a team-leading 18 points and Chris Mihm added 17 as the Lakers rallied for a 105-80 victory over the Kings, who were playing their first game since returning China.

Butler, who was acquired from the Miami Heat along with Lamar Odom in a blockbuster trade for center Shaquille O'Neal, was 8-of-15 from the floor and also had six rebounds.

The 6-7 swingman scored 10 points in the second half for Los Angeles, which outscored Sacramento 59-36 in the second half after leading by just two at halftime.

Taking the spot of injured center Vlade Divac, Mihm, who was part of the deal that sent Gary Payton to Boston, shot 6-of-9 and also was 5-of-7 from the foul line in 24 minutes for the Lakers.

Kobe Bryant was just 2-of-10 from the floor with 10 points and four turnovers in 33 minutes for Los Angeles, which got 17 points from Brian Cook.

Besides Divac, the Lakers were also without Devean George, Luke Walton, Slava Medvedenko and Kareem Rush.

Darius Songaila and Anwar Ferguson each scored 10 apiece for Sacramento, which shot 39.8 percent.

The Kings did not get much out of their starters, who played a combined 63 minutes and scored 25 points, with Brad Miller's seven leading the way.
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Chief Hooligan
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Reg.: 16 april 2004

Carmelo Anthony is op het vliegveld van Denver opgepakt
wegens het bezit van marihuana. Anthony riskeerd een boete
en celstraf. Volgens de NBA reglementen moet hij indien hij
positief getest wordt, of in het bezit is van een drug een
speciaal programma volgen.

RTL Text 146
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jde_kok
Legende
Tweede en derde prijs Banner Battle

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Deze posting is niet nieuw sinds je vorige bezoek Gepost op 7 november 2004 om 17:13:45.  Profiel  Stuur een email  Stuur een privébericht  Bezoek de homepage  Lid van Supportersvereniging PSV   Wijzig deze posting  Quote deze posting in je reactie
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De Pacers beginnen het seizoen weer sterk. Inmiddels op 3-0 :B
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Kobe Bryant
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Reg.: 7 april 2003

Massale vechtpartij bij Pistons-Pacers tussen zowel spelers onderling als fans.

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Pistons, Pacers game called early due to melee
Associated Press

AUBURN HILLS, Mich. -- Indiana's Ron Artest and Stephen Jackson charged into the stands and fought with fans in the final minute of their game against the Detroit Pistons tonight, and the brawl forced an early and ugly end to the Pacers' 97-82 win.

Officials stopped the game with 45.9 seconds remaining after pushing and shoving between the teams spilled into the stands and fans began throwing things at the players near the scorer's table.

"It's the ugliest thing I've seen as a coach or player," said Pistons coach Larry Brown, who was in the middle of the confrontation, trying to break it up.

After several minutes of players fighting with fans in the stands, the Pacers were pelted with beer, ice, and popcorn as they made their way to the locker room in one of the scariest brawls in an NBA game.

"I felt like I was fighting for my life out there," Pacers coach Rick Carlisle said. "I'm sorry the game had to end this way."

The Palace announcer said the game was being stopped and pleaded with fans not to throw things.

It all started when Detroit's Ben Wallace went in for a layup and was fouled hard by Artest from behind.

Wallace wheeled around and pushed Artest in the face. The benches emptied and punches were thrown.

As the players continued shoving each other near center court and coaches tried to restore order, Artest sprawled out on his back on the scorer's table, looking relaxed.

Just when it appeared tempers had died down, Artest was struck by a full cup thrown from the stands. He jumped up, and charged into the stands, throwing punches as he climbed over seats.

Fans were punching back, and Jackson and another teammate joined Artest in the melee.

Detroit's Rasheed Wallace and Indiana's David Harrison were also in or near the stands.

As the crowd roared, drinks and debris showered the court and the Pacers players covered their heads as they hustled through the runway leading to the locker room.

A man in a Pistons jersey approached Artest on the court with fists raised, shouting at him. Artest punched him in the face, knocking the man to the floor before leaving the court. Artest was pulled away, and the fan charged back. O'Neal stepped in and punched the man.

"The NBA is withholding comment until it can review the incident," NBA spokesman Tim Frank said.

Pistons spokesman Tom Wilson said he did not believe anyone would be arrested.

Players from both teams left without comment.

Police prevented reporters from crossing the loading dock to get to Indiana's locker room or the area where the Pacers' bus was located.HR
Ik heb de hele scene gedownload en gezien, wat een schande voor de NBA dit :nee

Als je het ook wil downloaden, kijk dan even hier:

[URL]http://www.azulinteractive.com/nbabrawl.wmv


[Dit bericht is veranderd door Kobe Bryant (op 21 november 2004 15:22:43).]
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Souza Forever
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Ja, een schande!!! ik zou zeggen, straffen voor minstens een half jaar voor alle betrokkenen en een levenslange uitsluiting voor Ron Artest (EINDELIJK! wat een ******** is dat al jaren)
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DSL
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Pff wat een schande zeg, nog nooit zoiets massaal gezien bij een Amerikaanse sport (ja bij de WCW of WWF misschien).
En dan de aanleiding, zo'n schandalige overtreding was het toch niet?
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In totaal is er voor 143 wedstrijden aan schorsing uitgedeeld :schrik
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berry van aerle
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Deze posting is niet nieuw sinds je vorige bezoek Gepost op 22 november 2004 om 12:12:00.  Profiel  Stuur een email  Stuur een privébericht  Bezoek de homepage  MSN: wesleyrokven83@gmail.com  Wijzig deze posting  Quote deze posting in je reactie
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Daar kan de KNVB nog wat van leren. Ik hoorde dat die gast van Vitesse maar maximaal 8 wedstrijden kan krijgen.
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Deze posting is niet nieuw sinds je vorige bezoek Gepost op 25 november 2004 om 10:16:33.  Profiel  Stuur een email  Stuur een privébericht  Bezoek de homepage  MSN: brameuser@hotmail.com  Wijzig deze posting  Quote deze posting in je reactie
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quote:HR
The Harminator schreef:

In totaal is er voor 143 wedstrijden aan schorsing uitgedeeld :schrik
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wow, ik heb het ook gezien. Moet wel zeggen dat die fans zich echt schandalig gedragen. Als ik een stoel in mijn gezicht krijg gegooit, zou ik mezelf ook niet kunnen beheersen.


Ron Artest - 70 wedstrijden (rest van het jaar, zonder salaris te krijgen.)
Stephen Jackson - 30 wedstrijden
Jermaine O'Neal - 25 wedstrijden

Ben Wallace - 6 wedstrijden
Anthony Johnson - 5 wedstrijden

Reggie Miller, Chauncey Billups, Elden Campbell en Derrick Coleman - 1 wedstrijd.

[Dit bericht is veranderd door Bramaldo - El Salvador (op 25 november 2004 10:18:20).]
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KEZZABOMMEL
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Ik ben misschien wat bevooroordeeld omdat de Pacers mijn cluppie zijn, maar ik vind de schorsingen van Artest en O'Neal veel te zwaar. De schorsing van Jackson(30 wedstrijden) vind ik terecht omdat hij zowel de tribune opgaat en wild om zich heen loopt te slaan. Artest is ontzettend geprovoceerd en hij is wat snel kwaad maar hij heeft niemand geslagen OP de tribune zoals wel gezegd wordt, hij wordt op tijd tegen gehouden. Op het veld daarna heeft hij overduidelijk iemand geslagen. O'Neal heeft 1 persoon geslagen op het veld omdat die een stoel naar hem gooide( lijkt mij zelfbescherming maar ok).
Ik vind dus Jackson de grootste boosdoener omdat die van het veld af gaat en supporters slaat dus eigenlijk moet de schorsing van Artest naar Jackson en die van Jackson naar Artest als je het heel eerlijk bekijkt.
Spelers mogen niet de tribune in van de NBA, logisch lijkt me, maar supporters mogen ook het veld niet op wat dus wel gebeurde en daar handelde zeker O'Neal uit zelf bescherming!
Ach het enige positieve is dat O'Neal en Jackson goed uitgerust zijn voor de Play Offs. De Pacers gaan zekers te weten nog hele hoge ogen gooien let maar op! :B
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Souza Forever
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Artest WORDT (?) geprovoceerd?? Dat is de nieuwste lezing! Artest begint de hele ellende met een zware overtreding op Wallace, zoals Artest die al jaren maakt om iemand uit de wedstrijd te krijgen. Er ontstaat een opstootje en Artest gaat op een afstandje staan kijken met een grote grijns op zijn gezicht naar het slagveld dat hij veroorzaakt heeft op het veld. Hij is er puur naar uit om Wallace uit de wedstrijd gestuurd te zien worden en liefst met een aantal erbij. Zelf speelt hij de onschuld zelve. Dit is niks nieuws, dit is Artest zijn spelletje. Als je het bloed onder de nagels probeert uit te krijgen van de tegenstander, moet je ook niet gaan liggen janken als je een bekertje (plastic!) water tegen je rug aankrijgt. Dit bekertje is in mijn ogen dan ook niet de reden waarom hij de tribune instormt. De reden is om de scheidsrechters nog meer redenen te geven om Wallace weg te sturen.

Nu deze tactiek eindelijk eens tegen hem werkt, speelt hij wederom het slachtoffer. De matennaaier naait zichzelf voor de verandering. En nog mooier, zijn teammaten! Mischien dat Indiana hem nu ook beu wordt.

Jermaine O'Neils straf vind ik ook overdreven omdat hij zoals gezegd niet de tribune opsuist. Maar hij moet niet bij de NBA gaan klagen, hij moet daar zijn eigen teammakker op aanspreken.
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KEZZABOMMEL
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Reg.: 21 september 2001

Zoals ik al zei ik ben bevooroordeeld omdat ik een Pacer fan ben.
Harde overtredingen worden nu eenmaal gemaakt en dat is geen excuus om Artest aan te vallen. Daarna worden Wallace en Artest uit elkaar gehaald en Artest gaat op de jurytafel liggen en doet verder niets. Dan wordt er iets naar hem toegegooid en wil hij reageren, en Wallace blijft hem continu provocerend aankijken, maar hij wordt tegen gehouden en gaat weer liggen dan krijgt hij een beker water op zijn borst/hals gegooid en niet zijn rug dus en dan reageert hij waarna hij de tribunes ingaat. Nogmaals hij slaat daar niemand, hij wordt tegen gehouden door Fred Jones die op zijn beurt in zijn nek wordt geslagen door een vriend van Wallace. Ik vind dat Artest geschorst moet worden omdat hij de tribunes inloopt + hij slaat iemand op de vloer, maar al met al vind ik wat Jackson doet erger.
Artest is echt geen matennaaier en wat betreft de schorsing van O'Neal die slaat gewoon nergens op.
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Kobe Bryant
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Een paar onwaarheden gasten:

O'Neal is wel terecht geschorst. Zagen jullie niet hoe hij die fan half glijdend neersloeg? Lijkt me niets op af te dingen, zoiets doe je gewoon niet!
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KEZZABOMMEL
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Nadat hij die stoel tegen hem aangegooid kreeg :schrik !
En dat gebeurde op het veld, wat deed die fan daar??? Das precies hetzelfde als wat die spelers op de tribune deden!
Spelers mogen zich zelf wel beschermen vind ik, wat zou jij doen als er een stoel naar je toe wordt gegooid en je voelt je bedreigd!
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Sander
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quote:HR
KEZZABOMMEL schreef:

Nadat hij die stoel tegen hem aangegooid kreeg :schrik !
En dat gebeurde op het veld, wat deed die fan daar??? Das precies hetzelfde als wat die spelers op de tribune deden!
Spelers mogen zich zelf wel beschermen vind ik, wat zou jij doen als er een stoel naar je toe wordt gegooid en je voelt je bedreigd!
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Die stoel vloog pas naar hem toe nadat hij die gast had geslagen hoor. Die stoel werd namelijk gegooid toen de spelers eindelijk het veld af wilden gaan de tunnel in. Ik denk dat de meeste hier niet de precieze volgorde weten van wat er gebeurd is. Waarschijnlik hebben de meeste hier flarden gezien op tv. Ik heb het helemaal gezien zoals het gegaan is.
Echter vind ik wel dat de spelers te ernstig zijn gestrafd.
Ik begrijp dat de NBA een voorbeeld wou stellen maar dit is gewoon zwaar overdreven. Als je dan nog kijkt naar de uitgedeelde straffen vind ik de verhoudingen ook erg scheef. Ben Wallace maar 6 wedstrijden, terwijl hij het uiteindelijk helemaal uitlokt. En het is niet zo vreemd dat de Detroit-spelers verder niet gingen vechten met fans, aangezien het hun eigen aanhang is.


Aangezien ik hier niet egt heb gepost laatste tijd zal ik ff kort mn visie geven over het seizoen tot nu toe.

Grote verassing is Seattle, onder leiding van Ray Allen. Het is absoluut niet een van mn favo teams en spelers maar toch moet ik zeggen dat ze knap presteren. Echter denk ik niet dat dit t hele seizoen zo zal blijven, omdat ze zo goed draaien door hun schutters. Die raken op t moment alles; dat kan niet goed blijven gaan.

Verder erg leuk om te zien dat Grant Hill geweldig loopt te ballen na 3 jaar blessureleed, ik hoop dat hij het volhoudt. Zo ja, is orlando leuke outsider in t Oosten.

Dirk Nowitzky loopt ook flink te pimpen dit seizoen. Hij zet geweldige cijfers neer.

Phoenix Suns draaien ook erg goed met Steve Nash en Amare Stoudamire. Kunnen wel eens ver komen dit seizoen.

En dan de Lakers en de Heat.
Kobe Bryant's lakers draaien wat wisselvallig. Kobe wel al 2 tripple doubles dit seizoen, maar het is even afwachten of Lamar Odom een goede adjudant gaat worden en of divac straks met zn ervaring het team naar een hoger niveau kan tillen.
De heat draaien solide. Onder aanvoering van Wade en Shaq halen ze goede resultaten. Zeker een grote kanshebber in het Oosten.

Waar ik naar uit kijk: 25 december; 23.05 op canal+
Miami Heat@Los Angeles Lakers
De game van het jaar!!! Shaq terug in LA! Ik verwacht wat van de heren Shaq en Kobe(vooral van de laatste natuurlijk). De heren hebben beloofd een boekje open te doen over de ander tegen de tijd van deze game. Ik kan niet wachten!!

[Dit bericht is veranderd door Sander (op 7 december 2004 20:24:42).]
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Kobe Bryant
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quote:HR
Sander schreef:

Waar ik naar uit kijk: 25 december; 23.05 op canal+
Miami Heat@Los Angeles Lakers
De game van het jaar!!! Shaq terug in LA! Ik verwacht wat van de heren Shaq en Kobe(vooral van de laatste natuurlijk). De heren hebben beloofd een boekje open te doen over de ander tegen de tijd van deze game. Ik kan niet wachten!!
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Anders ik wel :ja

Ik heb het scenario al bedacht:
De visite is welkom tot 22.00 uur. Daarna trap ik ze het huis uit, ga ik in m'n gemakkelijkste stoel zitten en duld ik geen andere mensen om me heen.

Ow ja, ik zet ook nog een kratje bier koud :B

Ik kan niet wachten!

:pul
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KEZZABOMMEL
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Jammer dat ze geen doubleheader uitzenden!
Het is namelijk diezelfde avond: Indiana Pacers-Detroit Pistons! :B
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KEZZABOMMEL
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Vandaag gelezen op http://www.indystar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88536 , de schorsingen worden waarschijnlijk terug gebracht! Mooi zo !
En Anthony Johnson kan waarschijnlijk zijn verloren salaris ten gevolge van de 5 wedstrijden schorsing toch nog krijgen!
Pacers WORLD CHAMPIONS 2005! :)
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Souza Forever
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Reg.: 11 februari 2000

Hier nog niets daarover gehoord, wat vreemd is omdat het nog steeds dagelijks nieuws is. Het omgekeerde is meer aan de orde nu, er wordt zelfs gedreigd met gevangenisstraffen voor Artest en consorten.

Wordt vervolgd (leuke woordspeling :B )
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